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	<title>Comments for Televisionaries</title>
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	<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog</link>
	<description>Square-eyed thought</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:45:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Making Gimli green by barrybigfingers</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/12/comment-page-1#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>barrybigfingers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 13:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=12#comment-20</guid>
		<description>I suppose the real importance of defining subsets of TV (against other AV content and platforms) is not so much for the consumer but for the advertiser, media agency and content rights owner. It must be a nightmare for planners and buyers trying to put all this activity in to neat little budget compartments and reporting to clients. Equally, &#039;TV&#039; revenue spends and forecasts must be getting less defined. Another dilema is how the rights and licensing protocol for equity, MCPS etc, etc needs to keep up with the changing landscape. I can&#039;t see much evidence of the industry changing the current administration architecture to accomodate all the new screen distribution opportunities for TV like PDA&#039;s and PC&#039;s. I&#039;m really excited about the future of TV and the commercial opportunities but I think there needs to be a lot more industry cohesion identifying the rules of engagement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose the real importance of defining subsets of TV (against other AV content and platforms) is not so much for the consumer but for the advertiser, media agency and content rights owner. It must be a nightmare for planners and buyers trying to put all this activity in to neat little budget compartments and reporting to clients. Equally, &#8216;TV&#8217; revenue spends and forecasts must be getting less defined. Another dilema is how the rights and licensing protocol for equity, MCPS etc, etc needs to keep up with the changing landscape. I can&#8217;t see much evidence of the industry changing the current administration architecture to accomodate all the new screen distribution opportunities for TV like PDA&#8217;s and PC&#8217;s. I&#8217;m really excited about the future of TV and the commercial opportunities but I think there needs to be a lot more industry cohesion identifying the rules of engagement.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The R-Word by jezwaspsrule</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/29/comment-page-1#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>jezwaspsrule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=29#comment-19</guid>
		<description>No, that makes sense - but how annoying that you are hamstrung by what look like rather excessively restrictive regulations. How about some AFP though? There must be a production company out there with a smart idea that would link in neatly with Thinkbox&#039;s mission.

The Home Office has managed to make something watchable with the Beat: Life on the Streets series. But then, I suppose, that you&#039;d run into problems of which channel to run it on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, that makes sense &#8211; but how annoying that you are hamstrung by what look like rather excessively restrictive regulations. How about some AFP though? There must be a production company out there with a smart idea that would link in neatly with Thinkbox&#8217;s mission.</p>
<p>The Home Office has managed to make something watchable with the Beat: Life on the Streets series. But then, I suppose, that you&#8217;d run into problems of which channel to run it on.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The R-Word by Tess Alps</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/29/comment-page-1#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Tess Alps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=29#comment-18</guid>
		<description>@jezwaspsrule: a very fair, if slightly difficult, question to put to us, particularly as our colleagues at the RAB, IAB and NMA are all benefiting from advertising in their respective media right now.  Here is the explanation of why it is extremely complicated for us to use broadcast TV advertising ourselves, which might just interest you if you are the anal sort, but equally might send you to sleep.

The rules governing broadcast TV advertising and promotion are extremely rigorous.  TV companies can only use promotional time for messages that relate to the audience as viewers.  Advertising time must be sold to any company at a fair market rate, including to Thinkbox, despite them owning us.  So we would not be allowed to have free, or even discounted, airtime.  And because the TV market has a fixed supply (of minutes) any advertising by a TV company owned subsidiary is open to the accusation from ISBA and the IPA of hardening the market, unless there is a clear market imperative for them to use TV.  Mind you, with TV prices at 1992 levels it might be considered a bit churlish if they did so!  There are other very cost-effective ways of using TV, such as sponsorship, but whatever route we chose we would of course have to operate transparently and squeakily-cleanly.

Then there is the small matter of the large slice of the ad budget that the government would take in the forms of various taxes and levies - unique to TV advertising - in the process.  And, as the marketing body for commercial TV, it would be a bit embarrassing if we didn&#039;t lead by example with fantastic creative work.

None of the above totally precludes us from advertising on broadcast TV, but the case would need to be very robust and it would be very complicated to resolve.  Then again, we do like a challenge...

However, we do use televisual communication whenever and wherever possible.  You&#039;ll see that our website is full of TV content and we also make TV &#039;programmes&#039; that we distribute on DVD.  So, we like to think we are using the newer TV platforms in engaging ways, if that doesn&#039;t sound too weaselly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jezwaspsrule: a very fair, if slightly difficult, question to put to us, particularly as our colleagues at the RAB, IAB and NMA are all benefiting from advertising in their respective media right now.  Here is the explanation of why it is extremely complicated for us to use broadcast TV advertising ourselves, which might just interest you if you are the anal sort, but equally might send you to sleep.</p>
<p>The rules governing broadcast TV advertising and promotion are extremely rigorous.  TV companies can only use promotional time for messages that relate to the audience as viewers.  Advertising time must be sold to any company at a fair market rate, including to Thinkbox, despite them owning us.  So we would not be allowed to have free, or even discounted, airtime.  And because the TV market has a fixed supply (of minutes) any advertising by a TV company owned subsidiary is open to the accusation from ISBA and the IPA of hardening the market, unless there is a clear market imperative for them to use TV.  Mind you, with TV prices at 1992 levels it might be considered a bit churlish if they did so!  There are other very cost-effective ways of using TV, such as sponsorship, but whatever route we chose we would of course have to operate transparently and squeakily-cleanly.</p>
<p>Then there is the small matter of the large slice of the ad budget that the government would take in the forms of various taxes and levies &#8211; unique to TV advertising &#8211; in the process.  And, as the marketing body for commercial TV, it would be a bit embarrassing if we didn&#8217;t lead by example with fantastic creative work.</p>
<p>None of the above totally precludes us from advertising on broadcast TV, but the case would need to be very robust and it would be very complicated to resolve.  Then again, we do like a challenge&#8230;</p>
<p>However, we do use televisual communication whenever and wherever possible.  You&#8217;ll see that our website is full of TV content and we also make TV &#8216;programmes&#8217; that we distribute on DVD.  So, we like to think we are using the newer TV platforms in engaging ways, if that doesn&#8217;t sound too weaselly!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The R-Word by jezwaspsrule</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/29/comment-page-1#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>jezwaspsrule</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=29#comment-17</guid>
		<description>If TV is such a prudent and effective investment, why doesn&#039;t Thinkbox run any TV ads? Placed in the right environment they might even attract new or lapsed advertisers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If TV is such a prudent and effective investment, why doesn&#8217;t Thinkbox run any TV ads? Placed in the right environment they might even attract new or lapsed advertisers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Making Gimli green by Video Poet</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/12/comment-page-1#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Video Poet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=12#comment-16</guid>
		<description>I think that mash ups, far from being of niche appeal, will actually become the dominant application, particularly when you include advertising and music as an art form... This creates extremely sophisticated tv and people get bored online extremely easily with formats now.... They are also inured to advertising..

On the subject of long form.. what about long form mashups.... now that would be interesting.... jaws to mozart, coronation street to barry white with bits of an advertisement coming in and out of focus to get attention. Getting attention is the new imperative.... !! !! 

Only the new will get the attention.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that mash ups, far from being of niche appeal, will actually become the dominant application, particularly when you include advertising and music as an art form&#8230; This creates extremely sophisticated tv and people get bored online extremely easily with formats now&#8230;. They are also inured to advertising..</p>
<p>On the subject of long form.. what about long form mashups&#8230;. now that would be interesting&#8230;. jaws to mozart, coronation street to barry white with bits of an advertisement coming in and out of focus to get attention. Getting attention is the new imperative&#8230;. !! !! </p>
<p>Only the new will get the attention&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>Comment on Making Gimli green by Tess Alps</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/12/comment-page-1#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Tess Alps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=12#comment-14</guid>
		<description>@barrybigfingers: I think we&#039;ve got a very strong feel for what viewers mean by TV, and I think it&#039;s important we always let consumer perceptions shape our definitions.  We&#039;ve got a long and tedious definition of TV if you want one: professionally produced immersive A/V entertainment delivered non-theatrically - but let&#039;s just call it telly.  

At Thinkbox we talk about the &#039;convergence&#039; sandwich&#039; because there are always 3 layers: the distribution technology (broadcasting, broadband, DVD, mobile) the hardware (TV sets, PCs, iPhones, Wiis etc etc) and the really important stuff which is the content.  That&#039;s what defines TV in our opinion.  So watching Sky News on your mobile phone at the bus-stop would definitely be considered TV by consumers, but I don&#039;t think that video without sound would be.  Moving escalator panels or online video windows don&#039;t, I think, make it over the line; no sound (or rarely) is one major reason but it&#039;s also the levels of engagement and attention, which are extremely peripheral in those instances.   

YouTube is really interesting.  We put it on the TV side of the line, but viewers switch between calling it TV and video, depending on the length of the content and whether it&#039;s amateur/UGC or professional in origin.

@Simon Marquis. Hello Simon, how lovely to see you here.  Rest assured, targeted, addressable advertising, be it via IPTV or web TV services, will definitely be touched on, though we&#039;ve only got half a day.  We&#039;re interested to understand exactly how much advertisers want this.  Packet Vision are clearly leaders in this field.  Maybe we should organise one of our lower-key events around the topic at a later date and get you involved...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@barrybigfingers: I think we&#8217;ve got a very strong feel for what viewers mean by TV, and I think it&#8217;s important we always let consumer perceptions shape our definitions.  We&#8217;ve got a long and tedious definition of TV if you want one: professionally produced immersive A/V entertainment delivered non-theatrically &#8211; but let&#8217;s just call it telly.  </p>
<p>At Thinkbox we talk about the &#8216;convergence&#8217; sandwich&#8217; because there are always 3 layers: the distribution technology (broadcasting, broadband, DVD, mobile) the hardware (TV sets, PCs, iPhones, Wiis etc etc) and the really important stuff which is the content.  That&#8217;s what defines TV in our opinion.  So watching Sky News on your mobile phone at the bus-stop would definitely be considered TV by consumers, but I don&#8217;t think that video without sound would be.  Moving escalator panels or online video windows don&#8217;t, I think, make it over the line; no sound (or rarely) is one major reason but it&#8217;s also the levels of engagement and attention, which are extremely peripheral in those instances.   </p>
<p>YouTube is really interesting.  We put it on the TV side of the line, but viewers switch between calling it TV and video, depending on the length of the content and whether it&#8217;s amateur/UGC or professional in origin.</p>
<p>@Simon Marquis. Hello Simon, how lovely to see you here.  Rest assured, targeted, addressable advertising, be it via IPTV or web TV services, will definitely be touched on, though we&#8217;ve only got half a day.  We&#8217;re interested to understand exactly how much advertisers want this.  Packet Vision are clearly leaders in this field.  Maybe we should organise one of our lower-key events around the topic at a later date and get you involved&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Making Gimli green by Simon Marquis</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/12/comment-page-1#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Marquis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=12#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Hi Tess - here&#039;s a bit of axe-grinding from me! I&#039;m with you that TV and TV advertising is here to stay, though its shape is clearly changing rapdily. One of those new forms of TV is IPTV and it&#039;s happening here and now in this country. Media Week picked this up last week (14th October) with their piece &quot;Channel 4 leads the way with targeted advertising&quot;. Channel 4 ads are now being targeted to students through the INUK (IPTV) network thanks to a clever piece of kit and an even cleverer piece of software developed by Packet Vision - a company I&#039;m involved with and you know about. Of course it&#039;s early days but this is one new strand of TV no-one should ignore, particularly in these &#039;credit-crunchy&#039; times because there&#039;s additional revenue to be generated. I hope Televisionaries (great initiative) heralds this new development: as global thought leaders the UK needs to be on top of all this exciting new stuff. If you want a Packet Vision luminary there to explain I&#039;m sure they&#039;d be delighted to help.
Simon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tess &#8211; here&#8217;s a bit of axe-grinding from me! I&#8217;m with you that TV and TV advertising is here to stay, though its shape is clearly changing rapdily. One of those new forms of TV is IPTV and it&#8217;s happening here and now in this country. Media Week picked this up last week (14th October) with their piece &#8220;Channel 4 leads the way with targeted advertising&#8221;. Channel 4 ads are now being targeted to students through the INUK (IPTV) network thanks to a clever piece of kit and an even cleverer piece of software developed by Packet Vision &#8211; a company I&#8217;m involved with and you know about. Of course it&#8217;s early days but this is one new strand of TV no-one should ignore, particularly in these &#8216;credit-crunchy&#8217; times because there&#8217;s additional revenue to be generated. I hope Televisionaries (great initiative) heralds this new development: as global thought leaders the UK needs to be on top of all this exciting new stuff. If you want a Packet Vision luminary there to explain I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;d be delighted to help.<br />
Simon</p>
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		<title>Comment on Making Gimli green by barrybigfingers</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/12/comment-page-1#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>barrybigfingers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=12#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Can anybody define what &#039;TV&#039; is now? Content and a/v advertising is distributed over multiple screens (on both a pull and push basis) 

So, is a video displayed on a bus shelter side defined as TV or an adshell?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anybody define what &#8216;TV&#8217; is now? Content and a/v advertising is distributed over multiple screens (on both a pull and push basis) </p>
<p>So, is a video displayed on a bus shelter side defined as TV or an adshell?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Making Gimli green by Tess Alps</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/12/comment-page-1#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Tess Alps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=12#comment-11</guid>
		<description>@nwalley:  Hello Nigel.  Thanks for your typically provocative comment.  And apologies for the arse-covering (not an inconsiderable task in my case) legals.  I won&#039;t try and give you a proper response; we need to leave something for the event after all.  

But I&#039;d just like to point out that so far there&#039;s  no sign that on-demand services are substitutions for linear TV.  In fact, this year we&#039;ve had some of the highest broadcast viewing for 15 years, and there&#039;s some early evidence that being able to catch-up easily with TV they&#039;ve missed, or the ability to act on a recommendation the next day, is keeping viewers in the broadcast stream. 
 
I&#039;m sure that at some point some linear viewing will switch to on-demand, but the net total TV viewed might be higher.  The issue is really about whether TV companies can make an on-demand eyeball as valuable as a broadcast one.  Let&#039;s wait and hear what the TV company Televisionaries have to say on the topic on the 20th.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@nwalley:  Hello Nigel.  Thanks for your typically provocative comment.  And apologies for the arse-covering (not an inconsiderable task in my case) legals.  I won&#8217;t try and give you a proper response; we need to leave something for the event after all.  </p>
<p>But I&#8217;d just like to point out that so far there&#8217;s  no sign that on-demand services are substitutions for linear TV.  In fact, this year we&#8217;ve had some of the highest broadcast viewing for 15 years, and there&#8217;s some early evidence that being able to catch-up easily with TV they&#8217;ve missed, or the ability to act on a recommendation the next day, is keeping viewers in the broadcast stream. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that at some point some linear viewing will switch to on-demand, but the net total TV viewed might be higher.  The issue is really about whether TV companies can make an on-demand eyeball as valuable as a broadcast one.  Let&#8217;s wait and hear what the TV company Televisionaries have to say on the topic on the 20th.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Making Gimli green by nwalley</title>
		<link>http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/archives/12/comment-page-1#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>nwalley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.televisionaries.tv/blog/?p=12#comment-10</guid>
		<description>For the first time in my life I actually read the T&amp;Cs of the site (well the rules of engagement actually). Apart from all the sensible things it says about not swearing or being otherwise obscene, one of the things it says is that we can&#039;t &#039;inconvenience or provoke others&#039;, or be &#039;inflammatory&#039;.   It took away all the excitement of taking part, I must say.  I wanted to raise a vaguely inflammatory question. It is sometimes hard for us to ask in the context of a direct client conversation with one of the TV companies, without &#039;provoking them&#039;.  Reading the posts above, realised that it was a topic that &#039;jezwaspsrule&#039; was hinting at.  This may be something to raise at the upcoming event. 

Having spent the last 12 months looking in detail at the role of on-demand in all its forms, there are times that I still wonder what&#039;s it for.  More importantly, why would a TV company much such an effort to drive their viewers to it.  All of the VOD services set up to date (and I&#039;m talking about TV VOD predominantly) have been configured as though they are competitors to the main broadcast business, rather than support tools.  (Seperate brand identities, no reference to the main channel, no mechanism to drive the audience back to broadcast at the end of the show etc).  This wouldn&#039;t be so bad if the commercial model had been sorted out and VOD was profitable on its own, but it hasn&#039;t.  At the moment, VOD is cannibalistic to audiences and broadcast revenues.  If you are head of ad sales at a major broadcaster, you must be shaking your head in despair at why your company has launched (or is about to launch) one of these services.

One could argue, (if you were feeling &#039;inflammatory&#039;), that the main commercial broadcasters should either :  close down their TV VOD services until they have discovered a stand alone commercial model; or reposition them as a customer support tool for the main channel, and use them to drive audiences back to broadcast. (with all the design and presentation changes that requires).

I would therefore like the conference address the question of &#039;what is VOD for&#039; from a commercial point of view (as long as it won&#039;t &#039;provoke others&#039;)

Tee hee - Nigel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the first time in my life I actually read the T&amp;Cs of the site (well the rules of engagement actually). Apart from all the sensible things it says about not swearing or being otherwise obscene, one of the things it says is that we can&#8217;t &#8216;inconvenience or provoke others&#8217;, or be &#8216;inflammatory&#8217;.   It took away all the excitement of taking part, I must say.  I wanted to raise a vaguely inflammatory question. It is sometimes hard for us to ask in the context of a direct client conversation with one of the TV companies, without &#8216;provoking them&#8217;.  Reading the posts above, realised that it was a topic that &#8216;jezwaspsrule&#8217; was hinting at.  This may be something to raise at the upcoming event. </p>
<p>Having spent the last 12 months looking in detail at the role of on-demand in all its forms, there are times that I still wonder what&#8217;s it for.  More importantly, why would a TV company much such an effort to drive their viewers to it.  All of the VOD services set up to date (and I&#8217;m talking about TV VOD predominantly) have been configured as though they are competitors to the main broadcast business, rather than support tools.  (Seperate brand identities, no reference to the main channel, no mechanism to drive the audience back to broadcast at the end of the show etc).  This wouldn&#8217;t be so bad if the commercial model had been sorted out and VOD was profitable on its own, but it hasn&#8217;t.  At the moment, VOD is cannibalistic to audiences and broadcast revenues.  If you are head of ad sales at a major broadcaster, you must be shaking your head in despair at why your company has launched (or is about to launch) one of these services.</p>
<p>One could argue, (if you were feeling &#8216;inflammatory&#8217;), that the main commercial broadcasters should either :  close down their TV VOD services until they have discovered a stand alone commercial model; or reposition them as a customer support tool for the main channel, and use them to drive audiences back to broadcast. (with all the design and presentation changes that requires).</p>
<p>I would therefore like the conference address the question of &#8216;what is VOD for&#8217; from a commercial point of view (as long as it won&#8217;t &#8216;provoke others&#8217;)</p>
<p>Tee hee &#8211; Nigel</p>
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